The Order Of Time | Carlo Rovelli

episode SUMMARY:

In this episode of the Books for Men podcast, host Douglas Vigliotti discusses the book The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli. Vigliotti, who admits to having failed a physics class in college, finds the book enjoyable and accessible even for those with little knowledge or interest in physics. He appreciates Rovelli's ability to simplify complex topics without oversimplifying them, making them understandable to a wider audience. Vigliotti is particularly drawn to the book's exploration of time, a subject that fascinates him personally. He praises Rovelli's writing style, which combines scientific and philosophical elements, and highlights some of the book's key insights, such as the concept of impermanence and the idea that the world is a collection of events rather than things. Vigliotti encourages listeners to read the book themselves and shares information on how to support the podcast.

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Welcome back to Books for Men, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week we are transitioning back into a nonfiction book for the month, and it is called The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli. I believe the book was first published in Italian in 2017, and then the following year it was when the US version came out. It's a really short book. It's only around 200 pages, which is pretty rare or odd for the subject matter or the genre, which is science, more specifically physics, and also kind of crosses over a little bit into philosophy, but I think the latter is more indicative of the author's writing style or his sensibilities as a whole, which is something that makes this book really enjoyable and something that is easy to read even for the layperson. And by the way, I consider myself even beyond lay person when it comes to physics, whatever that means.

(01:11)

It's actually pretty funny. A couple of weeks ago I got my college transcript and I hadn't seen it in forever. And for those of you who don't know, I've shared this on the podcast before. It took me probably six or seven years to graduate from college, not because I was failing classes, although this story does relate to me, failing. One, I was mostly just working to get through school and I was going part-time and all of that stuff, and that's why it took me so long. But anyway, I got my transcript and one of the classes that I did fail was physics. So of course I thought this was funny because I'm sharing a book on the subject matter today. But even more than that, I think that it's a testament to the fact that this book is really enjoyable for somebody who knows absolutely nothing about physics or has only the faintest interest in it at all.

(02:03)

For me, the reason why I came to this book and opened it up in the first place was because I sort of have this obsession with time. And I actually shared a book at the end of last year in December called The Power of Now, which talks about time in a spiritual sense. And this book, while it does touch on time in a spiritual sense, it's definitely more scientific as in what do we understand about time today in a collective sense? But again, it does bring it back to the individual. And I think the melding of the two does make it entertaining in that way. A lot of times when things are too separated from the individual experience, it hinders the enjoyment of the work. For me, aside, I think that anyone who can take massively complex topics and reduce them down to simplified language without being reductive, and you be saying to yourself, well, how could you reduce something without being reductive?

(03:02)

And I just mean reductive in the sense of oversimplifying. And when you oversimplify, you lose the essence of what it actually is that you're simplifying. And so you could do that by being too simple or taking too many shortcuts to get to the punchline, so to speak. And I think for me personally, there's true genius in the ability to simplify complex topics so anybody can understand them no matter what subspecialty you're in. Now, granted, physics and quantum physics and all different types of physics are very far out there for people who aren't engaged in the field of expertise. So doing that is a big challenge. Simplifying that is a big challenge, but I think across the disciplines in life, whether it's in the arts or it's in the sciences, you could really go into the weeds and down into the depths of these subjects. And in doing so, you could get so far removed from what is actually practical for 99.9% of humans.

(04:14)

And when you do that, in my view of the world, it loses something, and that something typically is the thing that actually matters. So for me, simplicity is always worth striving for, whether it's in how you communicate, how you think, how you perform, or do a craft or anything. And that mostly has to do with reproducibility and engagement because the simpler something is, although it's not easy, the easier it will be to do it than if it wasn't simple. And hence, you should be able to do it more often. And if you could do it more often, then you can leverage compounding. And this has countless benefits over time. And the reason why I bring this up is because I think that Rovelli does this extremely well in The Order of Time. And I'm not going to lie, even some aspects of this book get a little bit out there, but nothing is out there for too long before it comes back into something that the normal person can understand, at least intuitively, if not on a much deeper level.

(05:25)

But I think the one thing that we can all relate to is our own experience with time because it's the thing that is probably most pressing in all of our lives. The book starts with this quote from Horace in Os, which was a book of lyrical poems from 20 or 30 BC, but that doesn't matter. The poem says, “Even words that I'm speaking no / thieving time / has stolen away / and nothing can return.” For me, this idea is just so powerful that every second millisecond of time moves forward, and the thing that we just did can never be unchanged. It's scary, it's daunting, it's inspiring, it's everything really. And it's the reason why I've been so captivated by the subject matter. And one of the reasons why I really love the book is something that I alluded to in the opening of this episode, which is Elli is a really good writer.

(06:30)

He's lyrical, he's emotional, not in a saccharine type of way, more of the truer sense in arousing or invoking emotion, but I don't want to make it sound like it's a novel either, because it doesn't have that kind of emotional pull in. I think the strength is in the combination of your own personal experience and reflection on the subject matter which is visceral for a lot of people in general. He talks about the loss of unity with time. So the fact that there is no true time, time is different everywhere and for everyone, and that we have a bubble that is our present around us, but people that aren't in that bubble aren't experiencing the same time that we are. And of course, something that I had already mentioned, the loss of direction of time. So we know that time only goes one way. He also talks about the theories that different physicists came up with throughout history, Aristotle, which is time is nothing more than the measurement of change between two things or Sir Isaac Newton's evolution of that idea, which was there is still a time that passes even when nothing changes.

(07:53)

And then the even farther evolved version of that, Albert Einstein concluded that both were right and pushed this concept of time even further. Two of my favorite insights from the book were one in affirmation of sorts in the law of impermanence, which is a Buddhist principle, something that I've talked about on this podcast before in a spiritual sense. But he also makes the statement in the book: “The entire evolution of science suggests that the best grammar for thinking about the world is that of change, not permanence. Not of being, but of becoming. And, then he goes as further with saying: “The world is not a collection of things, it is a collection of events.” And these two ideas combined really hit me. As he elaborates on them, they made a lot of sense to me, and I thought that they were powerful in both thinking about how the world works around us as well as things that occur in our own lives as we think about the past, the future, and the present.

(09:06)

Not in isolation, but in how one thing relates to the next thing. And on that note, I think I've shared enough about the book. I have a lot more that is written down here, but I do think that for the sake of time as well as for the sake of the subject matter, I think this is probably a better book for you to read Rove's maxim's musings ideas on the topic because he does it in such a compelling, succinct way for such a complex subject. So on that note, I want to thank you for listening. Of course. If you enjoyed the episode, then please share it with friends, family members, or anyone else who you think might enjoy it, because word of mouth is everything. With this podcast, we are trying to inspire more men to read, and you could double down on that support by rating, liking, subscribing, following, or any of that good stuff on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on because in doing so, it helps more people find the show. You could always reach out to me on Instagram @douglasvigliottii. It's the only social media I have. And lastly, for more information, you could always visit BooksforMen.org where you can get full transcripts for every episode, as well as sign up for the newsletter, which is a monthly roundup of every episode, complete with full book and author information, all the best quotes and newsletter only book recommendations. Again, all you have to do is head over to BooksforMen.org.