Big Swiss | Jen Beagin

episode SUMMARY:

In this episode of the Books for Men podcast, host Douglas Vigliotti introduces Big Swiss by Jen Beagin. He describes the book as a literary novel that falls under women's fiction, a genre that centers around female life experiences and is marketed toward female readers. Vigliotti believes the lack of a genre called “men’s fiction” is a market effect over time—as in, men don’t read fiction today. He suggests that if a genre existed using the same criteria as women’s fiction, it may encourage more men to read fiction. Vigliotti describes Big Swiss as odd, funny, and cult-like in its feel—citing that’s what he loves most about it. The story follows a disenchanted transcriptionist for a sex therapist who writes letters to her deceased mother and becomes involved with one of her employer's patients, a repressed Swiss woman who is much younger and married. The novel explores themes of trauma, sexuality, and accountability. Vigliotti also mentions the inclusion of many cultural touchpoints and a unique portrayal of a Boston accent. He encourages listeners to share the podcast and connect with him on Instagram or via BooksforMen.org.

Listen to the episode:

*Subscribe to The Books for Men Newsletter, a monthly round-up of every episode with full book and author info, all the best quotes, and newsletter-only book recommendations!

READ THE TRANSCRIPT:

Welcome back to Books for Men, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week I have a really interesting novel to share with you. It's the first time ever that I'm featuring a piece of women's fiction on the podcast, which is basically just this broad genre that features fiction centered on women's life experiences that is also marketed directly toward female readers. And so this is interesting, of course, because this is a show called Books for Men. So what is this book doing on this podcast? And the story of that is pretty interesting. It got me thinking about a lot of different things, and this is primarily why I wanted to share this book with you. Also, just for the record, I think that this is a solid piece of literary fiction as well, both thematically and on a sentence level.

(01:04)

It in my eyes would classify as such and I think in most people's as well. But I don't want to jump too far ahead. I want to circle back to the reason why I wanted to share a piece of women's fiction on the podcast and then specifically this book, of course. So first, when I considered sharing this book on the podcast, the thing that I thought about almost immediately, and I'm surprised I never brought this up either in conversation with people. Exterior from the podcast or on the podcast before. But one of the biggest supporting arguments for the fact that men don't read fiction is that there isn't a genre called men's fiction. To me, this is not an indictment on male readers or anything of that nature. I literally just think it's a market response over time, and that is there are way more females that read fiction.

(01:56)

So having a genre that represents their interest solely just makes sense from a commerce perspective or an economic perspective. I think if there were more men buying and reading fiction, then there might be a genre called men's fiction. I think that I can probably make the case for there being one anyway, and maybe that would do something to inspire some men to read more. And we don't have to get into any kind of elaborate description of what makes something men's fiction versus women's fiction. We could just use the same rubric that is classified with women's fiction, fiction that is centered around men's life experiences and marketed directly towards men. I think that this would be interesting, but again, I understand why it doesn't exist. Anyway, I don't want to go too far down that this is just something that I thought a lot about when I considered sharing this book on the podcast, mostly again because of the genre, but what made that even more interesting to me was that this book was recommended to me by a man, and I'm featuring it on a podcast called Books for Men.

(03:14)

So it must be for a man too. Just because something is classified as something else doesn't necessarily mean it would not be appropriate. Good entertaining. I don't know. You named the adjective for a man, and to be honest, I'm not really sure at this point what would classify a book for a man versus a woman, aside from the sex or gender of the protagonist and the issues that are dealt with in the actual story itself. Even saying that, I think that this book that I'm sharing with you today, Big Swiss by Jen Beagin is a great example of something that is classified under a genre that by its definition would not be a book for a man. And unless you were open enough or had the right indicators to point you to it, you might miss it altogether. So with that being said, it was pointed to me and now I want to direct you to it as a book that I think you would really enjoy.

(04:23)

To me, this book is just super odd, and I love odd. It had me write from that aspect. It almost has this cult-type feel to it, not in an icky way. I mean more or less, I don't know, the Big Lebowski, you know how the Big Lebowski has a cult following type of thing to it. There's a strangeness about it that is baked into the work itself. Well, that's sort of how I feel about Big Swiss. It's strange as hell in both the story and the form of how it's told, and I really enjoyed that. Not to mention it also has a great title, which instantly becomes hilarious as soon as you read the first chapter of the book. So anyway, what is this story about? It's set in Hudson, New York, and I do think the setting adds to the vibe of the story, it's about a disenchanted suicidal female transcriptionist for a sex therapist.

(05:30)

Her name is Greta. She moved across the country. She writes letters to her dead mother, and she falls for and meets one of her employer's patients who is a late twenties repressed female ob, GYN from Switzerland, aka Big Swiss, and she's married to this wealthy guy and she can't have an orgasm. And all of this stuff that you learn about her because Greta is the transcriptionist for this patient, unknowingly, of course. And this creates a really interesting juxtaposition, and I think that this does two things for the reader. One, it's almost like a stand-in for your sub subconscious as your read through the exchange between patient and therapist and the therapist's name is or Om Om. But as you read that, Greta's thoughts are almost like your subconscious and they're funny. This is a dark comedy as well as a piece of women's fiction and literary fiction.

(06:33)

There's a lot of humor in the book and they make light of a lot of really dark topics. So just as a heads up on that notion. But the other thing that I thought about with this type of setup and format is it was a really unique way to pull in backstory and exposition on these characters in a way that was entertaining and engaging and didn't feel like an information dump. Something that does happen from time to time, or at least in my perspective, it does. So the story is really about how these two come together, and they are quite an odd pairing. One is significantly older than the other. Of course, this is a female-on-female relationship, and primarily for both of them, this is the first, or at least their last relationship or current relationship for one of them is of the heterosexual variety.

(07:27)

But like all great love stories, and this one is a non-traditional love story, but it is a love story. The pairing has that natural tension built into it, and that's what makes buddy stories, great, love stories, great is when two people are different and they come together and have to navigate those differences. On a thematical level, the book really deals with trauma and the effects of how trauma plays itself out throughout one's life. And more importantly, I think it's about taking accountability for your shit at some point in your life. And there's a lot of humor around this, especially later in the book. And then of course, as I opened this episode with, she's a really strong writer sensibilities that are spot on, and I really enjoyed it On a sentence level, and honestly, full honesty, there are things that I stylistically don't like, but even saying that because of the cohesiveness of everything else, I really enjoyed it.

(08:32)

And I'm just talking about very small things like a lot of adverbs modifying the verb said, which is done repetitively and consistently. And because of that it is works, and I'm just bringing this up because it's something that intuitively I would probably tell somebody else if they asked me. And so that's why I wanted to mention it here. And I know that this is a highly debated topic amongst writers and for the amount that I see it in contemporary fiction, I'm probably in the minority at this point in this camp. So I don't want to go down too much of a tangent on this. I just wanted to bring it up because as I said, it's something that I thought while I was reading it. And if nothing else, I'm at least honest with you about the stuff that I share. But with that being said, I love the book.

(09:22)

It was funny, it was odd, as I've already mentioned, and I love odd. It just was really well done. Her description is amazing. It also puts you inside of the shoes of characters who are other than yourself, maybe not in the things that they think, but just in the world and the setting of the story. And lastly, before I wrap this up, I do have to just mention there are a lot of great cultural references. Any book that references “Pale Blue Eyes” by The Velvet Underground gets a pound from me. I love that song as well as an excellent usage of a Boston accent. I have never read a writer describe a Boston accent as well as Jen Beagin did. In fact, I don't know if I've ever read prose that attempts to phonetically sound out a Boston accent. It's only for a short portion of the book, but even saying that it could get annoying, it didn't.

(10:25)

I found a lot of enjoyment in reading it. And also, I'll wrap this up with, there is the best description perhaps I've ever read of female genitalia, and no, I will not share it on the podcast. But yes, I will share a quote in the newsletter this month. So if you're interested, you're going to have to go sign up for that. On that note, I want to thank you for listening. As always. If you enjoyed today's episode, please remember to share it with friends family, and other people who you think might enjoy it because word of mouth is everything. And with this podcast specifically, it's to inspire more men to read. And I need your help to do that. You could double down on that support by rating, liking, following, subscribing, all of that good stuff, or any of that good stuff on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on. And if you want to connect with me, you can always do so @douglasvigliotti on Instagram. It's the only social media that I have. And for more information, you could always head over to BooksforMen.org where you can get full transcripts for all of these episodes. As well as sign up for the newsletter, which is a monthly roundup of every episode, complete with full book and author information, all the best quotes, and newsletter-only book recommendations. Again, all you have to do is head over to BooksforMen.org.