#251 | Why Hattie Williams’ Debut Novel ‘Bitter Sweet’ Is Proof Men Should Read More Women’s Fiction
Quick SUMMARY:
Douglas Vigliotti dives into Hattie Williams’ debut novel, "Bitter Sweet," ahead of its July 2025 release. Douglas unpacks the story of Charlie, a young book publicist at a London publishing house entangled with a famous, much older, married novelist, and the complexities of her emotional journey. He highlights the novel’s themes of grief, loss, desire, power asymmetry, and the addictive nature of love and forbidden fruit, praising Williams’ intimate and vulnerable writing style and encouraging male listeners to sprinkle in more women’s fiction for one very specific reason.
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TOPICS COVERED IN the EPISODE:
Introduction to the Episode and Book Announcement (00:09) - Host introduces the podcast, announces "Bitter Sweet" by Hattie Williams, and mentions his own book.
About the Author: Hattie Williams (01:12) - Background on Hattie Williams, her artistic journey, and connection to the host.
Context of "Difficult Men" and Book’s Male Lead (02:33) - Comparison of Hattie's writing on complicated men to the book’s male character, Richard Aveling.
Book Overview and Main Characters (03:42) - Summary of the plot, protagonist Charlie, and the relationship with Richard Aveling.
Charlie's Emotional Journey and Addiction Analogy (04:59) - Exploration of Charlie’s emotional struggles and the addictive nature of her relationship.
Takeaways: Opening Scene and Writing Style (06:01) - Host discusses the novel’s cinematic opening and praises Hattie’s intimate, vulnerable prose.
Value of Women’s Fiction for Male Readers (07:14) - Reflection on the importance of men reading women’s fiction to understand different perspectives.
Complexity of Emotions and Power Dynamics (08:28) - Discussion of Charlie’s conflicted feelings, performance in relationships, and power asymmetry.
Relatability and Human Nature (09:49) - Host shares a favorite quote, relating to universal human experiences and the allure of the forbidden.
Desire, Comfort, and Central Conflict (11:00) - Analysis of the novel’s central theme: the tension between risk/desire and comfort/safety.
Bittersweet Aesthetic and Episode Wrap-Up (12:19) - Reflection on the meaning of "bittersweet" and closing remarks, including how to connect with the host.
READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome back to “Books for Men”, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week I am featuring a brand-new piece of fiction. In fact, if you are listening to this in real time, then it is not even out yet. It will be released in 2 to 3 weeks. I will talk about that a little bit more when I get into the episode, but it is a literary work of fiction. It is women's fiction. It clocks in at around 300 pages or so, and it is titled “Bitter Sweet” by Hattie Williams. Of course, I will get into more about the author, the book, and some of my larger takeaways. But first, I wanted to quickly remind you about my new book that is out, “Aristotle for Novelists: 14 Timeless Principles on the Art of Story”. And if you are a novelist, an aspiring novelist, or perhaps you're just trying to tell a story of any kind, whether it's on the page, the screen, or perhaps even in your life, then I think you will get a lot out of this book.
01:12 - If you are interested in learning more, all you have to do is visit AristotleforNovelists.com. All right, so now let me turn back to the work at hand. And as always, I first like to start with the author. So, who is Hattie Williams? She is a debut novelist. Yes, this is her debut, but she's a lifelong artist. She was a musician, mostly recording and touring before beginning to work in publishing in her 20s, which feels very apropos or on cue, given the novel that I am sharing with you today. More on that in a moment, of course. So I actually met Hattie via happenstance in the lobby of an Iceland hotel. We stayed in touch, and I'm so happy we did, because that's how I came to this book early and her work more broadly. She also has a Substack where she writes candidly about love and loss and other “Big Feelings”, which is the title of the column. So I read a recent piece on Complicated Men, which instantly made me think of this Brett Martin book I read some years ago titled “Difficult Men”, about the difficult male showrunners of shows like “The Sopranos”, “Breaking Bad”, “Mad Men”, “The Wire”, etc. and their difficult male leads and protagonists, which I raise for two reasons one, Hattie's piece is totally worth the read, and I will actually link it in the show notes.
02:33 - But also, the lead male character in “Bitter Sweet” would fall into this category of difficult men, or as Hattie might describe him, as complicated. So I think it just serves as a good extension or additional context for the book that I am sharing with you today. On that note, what is this book actually about? So, as always, I don't want to share too much about the plot. Especially since the book isn't officially out yet. It will be availableon July 8th, 2025. So as I mentioned at the top of this episode, that's around 2 to 3 weeks from now when this episode airs. But in short, this book is about a 20-something publicist at a London publishing house. Charlie is her name, and it's told through Charlie's eyes. So you're in her head throughout the narration. It is a first-person story. She has a heavy backstory and a heavy heart to match, and meets global literary sensation Richard Aveling, who is 30 years her senior and also married. So certainly, the book is about the relationship that ensues and the inevitable power asymmetry that exists between the two.
03:42 - But for me, the spine of the narrative is really Charlie's emotional journey, dealing with the internal weight of her mother's sudden and traumatic death and combining that with or juxtaposing that with the intertwining of Richard Aveling's stature and the impact of his literature in her life from a young age. It all just makes this impossible situation even more impossible. As you read on, and how he does a good job of infusing the plot with events that amplify this central tension and put pressure on our protagonist in various ways. But Charlie's situation almost feels like an addiction. She has this quote that comes up later in the book that I think portrays this really well, and she writes, “I wanted to erase Richard from myself as much as I wanted to marry him, but I couldn't erase him and I couldn't leave him. I had neither the strength nor the will. Let alone the sense.”
04:59 - And for me, that feels so much like an addiction, right? Something that you know is bad for you, but you just can't stop doing it anyway. Like usual, I've already started to dip into my larger takeaways, so let me turn to that section of the episode here. The first one, being the opening scene, is one that I really just love. It starts fast with the hook of the novel. So it is. The first meeting between Charlie and Richard, to me, was just beautifully cinematic. I totally saw it in my head. Honestly, I think it was probably the fact that they were both smoking cigarettes. If anyone romanticizes the cigarette, it's me. I think it's probably one of the coolest things ever. So the fact that they're both doing this in the opening scene really amps it for me, and I think that has just as much to do with Art's representation of cigarettes as anything. But hey, I'm human. The more important piece, of course, is that you don't have to wait long before you see these two meet each other, and for the plot to kick into gear.
06:01 - And this is something that I just really appreciate as a reader. And so the second takeaway that I wanted to share with you is around her prose. Her writing to me is very intimate, and it's very vulnerable. And every time she leans into that, it really provides for some memorable moments. I would think of these as like the deepest and messiest moments of our protagonist, but there are some of the ones that I enjoyed the most. To me, they're just the most human, and this is something that I love, and I think we could all relate to. And for me, more generally, the thing that separates writers or any artist, for that matter, is not talent. I think that there are a lot of talented people out there. In some ways, it's just table stakes, but it's in the artist's ability or willingness to really go there. And I mean that both metaphorically and also literally, with what appears on the page. And Hattie's ability to open up and allow the reader in is really a huge strength of this novel.
07:14 - And although as a man, I couldn't relate to some of the more female aspects of the novel, which there are a ton, and I view that as, again, a strength for any male reader, because it brings you closer to a world that you do not know more broadly. I think this is why men should read more women's fiction, because it brings you closer to the female perspective. And if you care about women at all, which I hope you do. Then sprinkling in women's fiction from time to time will help you have a much deeper understanding of the female experience. There's a part of the novel that really comes to mind when Charlie was first sleeping with Richard. This is someone that she wanted to sleep with. She fantasized over, lust over, in many ways. And then, when it actually began to happen, her feelings started to change. And I think this is a great example of the complexity of emotion that one might have in a situation like this. She even writes in the story.
08:28 – “I wasn't really there with him, I was performing, I was someone else pushing back against him.” And again, I am not a woman, but I certainly know what it's like to not be in the moment and catch myself performing to make somebody like me or appease somebody or make a situation easier to deal with. And in that, I can relate to the emotional experience that our protagonist is going through. And I think that, again, like, this is what you will gain from reading a novel like this, especially as the story brings you closer to the complex nature of power asymmetry, which it's easy to lose sight of when you are not on the side of power. So in this novel, of course, it's Richard's fame and notoriety, financial success, and it will help shed light on so many of these situations that we see play out in real life. And in no way am I letting Charlie totally off the hook, because so many of the problems that occur in this novel are of her own doing, but at the same time, so many of them are in response to a world that she grew up in.
09:49 - And I think, again, this is something that we could all relate to. One of my favorite quotes and moments it's something so simple and subtle, but again, it's so emblematic of what we do as humans, both men and women. She writes: “I had not stopped thinking about him in the days since I had met him, delighting in every second of our interaction, then cringing at the things that I had said, replaying it all over and over as I fell asleep.” When I read that, I was just like, man, it's so true. I mean, we all do this, or at least I do it, and I think everyone else does it. And there are just so many moments like that sprinkled throughout the narrative. But in a macro sense, the idea that we are drawn to things we shouldn't be is a Biblical idea that all this time. Right. The forbidden fruit. But it's that pull between the root of desire, which is risk and danger, combined with the root of comfort, which is safety and familiarity, and the fact that those two are polar opposites.
11:00 - It's a really interesting way to look at this novel and hold a mirror up as a reflection to us as humans. Or in short, it's like we want riskiness because that's what makes something desirable. That mystery that I don't know feeling. But we also crave comfort. And at the root of that is safety and familiarity and certainty in many respects. No surprises, no mystery. And it's the intertwining of that broader idea that I think is the central challenge for not just our protagonist, Charlie, but for many of us and the romantic relationships that we pursue in our lives. And it's sort of like the quote that Hattie shares from Ted Hughes in the epigraph of this novel that says, “What happens in the heart simply happens.” And while I think that that's probably a perfect place to end this episode, I did want to just quickly mention the title ‘Bitter Sweet’. And for me, it's always one of my favorite aesthetics in a piece of art. Because life is truly bittersweet. You can't have the good without the bad, the bad without the good.
12:19 - There are trade-offs in this game, and what's more representative of that than something that is bittersweet? All right, so that's a wrap. If you enjoyed today's episode, please remember to click subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on because that is the best way to help new listeners find the show and, in return, inspire more men to read. If you want to reach out to me, perhaps tell me what you thought about this episode or the podcast. More broadly, there are two ways you can do that: on Instagram @DouglasVigliotti, which is the only social media that I have, or via my website, DouglasVigliotti.com. As I mentioned at the top of this episode, I have a new book out. It is titled “Aristotle for Novelists”. You can find out more information about that at AristotleforNovelists.com. And last, but not least, I want to thank you so much for listening. And if you want to find out more information about this podcast specifically, which includes signing up for the monthly newsletter, then all you have to do is head over to the website BooksforMen.org.
