Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow | Gabrielle Zevin

episode SUMMARY:

In this episode of the Books for Men podcast, host Douglas Vigliotti discusses the book Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin. He praises the book for its effortless read and immersive storytelling. The book is a love story that follows the lives of Sam and Sadie over 30 years (but not the kind of love story you think it is.) It’s about friendship and partnership. Vigliotti highlights the clever use of second-person narration and the incorporation of different point-of-view techniques in the novel. He also mentions some of the book's witty and thought-provoking quotes, particularly those related to artistry and the creative process. Vigliotti emphasizes that the book will resonate with creatives, artists, and gamers. He concludes by encouraging listeners to share the podcast and support the mission of inspiring more men to read.

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Welcome back, the Books for Men, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week I have another piece of literary fiction for you, and if you are a book person, you might already recognize the title Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin. It was, it is an extremely popular book. It came out in 2022. So just about a year ago, or maybe a little over a year. I think it was July of last year. This is actually the first time I'm featuring a book that is so new, I think on the podcast, I'd have to go back and look, but this book really deserves it. You know, for starters, I will just say that I find the book or found the book to be a pretty effortless read. I know that some people dock a book for that because if it reads too easily, is it challenging you enough in a way?

(01:04)

And I think that that sort of is a silly thing, at least, in my mind. I think the whole job of an author is to make you forget that you're actually reading and not to disturb what they say is a dream-like state. I think that this book has that quality to it, and you really get immersed in it. It's told in the third person, mostly omnipresent, but it does use second-person pretty effectively. In a large section of the book, I talked quite a bit about second-person when we talked about Bright Lights, Big City by Jay McInerney. Again, in this book, there is a whole section where the author switches to second-person, and I'll spoil the plot if I tell you more about why and when. And so I won't go into that. But what I will say is that I thought it was really clever and effective given the timing, even though when I first started reading that section, I said to myself, what the heck is happening here?

(02:03)

And then as the section went on a little bit further, I realized what the author was doing, and it made the book even more interesting for me. I personally like how she mixed in some different point-of-view techniques and just some different structural elements in the novel, not right away as the novel starts, but as the novel progresses. And it just, for me was like a chef that was seasoning the meal. And so she seasoned the meal very well, at least, from my perspective. So we're at the point in the episode where I should probably tell you what the story is about. In short, it's a love story, but it's not a prototypical one. And I think that's the core element of the novel that makes it really compelling and seductive in a way because it's a much rarer type of love if I'm being honest.

(02:53)

You know, it's really about, a friendship that spans over 30 years. It follows the lives of Sam and Sadie who first meet as kids, then reconnect in college, start a gaming company, and go on to achieve massive success, but not without many setbacks and issues and valleys to a lot of those peaks. And in a sense, it's very bittersweet. And to me, there's probably no better quality than bittersweet because it reflects life. I feel like in the best way, in that there's a tug and a pole. There are many qualities about life that juxtapose against each other and especially inter-relationally. And so when you're talking about a love story or a collaboration or a partnership as this is, that element is so important to show the ups and downs, the struggles, the good elements as well, right? And in that way, even though it is bittersweet, it's also delightful.

(03:52)

And it's definitely witty. Line for line, this book has so many good quotes. I pulled I can't even count how many I highlighted when I read it. I read it on Kindle. And so I used that highlight function and it exported my notes and I couldn't believe how many I had. But sentence for sentence, the book is just so strong as given by its performance and widespread popularity. If you are an artist, there are so many good anecdotes in this book for you to grapple with. As Sam and Sadie are both artists, maybe not in a traditional sense, but they are video game designers. And so the element of artistry and creating things is a central theme in the book. There are just so many little nuggets to think about. Some of my favorites are these ones. “There is a time for a fledgling artist where one's tastes exceed one's abilities. The only way to get through this period is to make things anyway.”

(04:53)

Or like Sam often says to Sadie in the novel, “Why make anything if you don't believe it could be great?” And then this other one that I just love so much is, “There is no purity in art. The process of how you arrive at something doesn't matter at all. The game is going to be completely original because we made it.” Damn. I just feel like that's so true in so many ways. And then there's this other great line that happens later in the novel where it's talking about Sam's perspective on things. And it goes, “Sam didn't believe it was possible to spoil a game. The point was not what happened, but the process of getting to what happened.” And I just love that so much because so much fiction or filmmaking or storytelling is about getting to what happened as opposed to what actually happens.

(05:40)

It reminds me a lot of the Alfred Hitchcock theory in, “It's all in the run-up.” So it doesn't matter the actual thing that happens, the scare, the actual result, but how you document the run-up to it is the most important thing. I just love that. Or Ernest Hemingway is famous for saying that you can't truly articulate something unless you experienced it. So whether you agree with that or not, then that's a different story. But why he says that or what he says in conjunction with that is, if you didn't experience it, then the best that you could do is to document the runup to that thing. So the process of getting to that thing, it's a little bit different, but it kind of still circles around that same idea, or at least it made me think about all of that while I was reading it. And then at the end of the novel, Sadie is talking about teaching gaming and whatnot, and she says, “Limitations are style if you make them so.”

(06:40)

I just love that so much because if you've listened to previous additions to this podcast, I talk a lot about constraints being essential to the creative process. I just love this idea that your limitations can be your style if you just embrace them. And I think that that's a really empowering way to think about your creative life. And so this novel will definitely hit home for a lot of creatives and people who make things for a living or for fun for that matter. And just to tie a bow on the story element, I'd be doing you a disservice if I didn't quickly comment on the obvious thematical element of games and designing games and that whole concept for the book. So I read the acknowledgments, I always read the acknowledgments before I start reading a book. It's kind of a weird quirk that I have.

(07:38)

Even if the acknowledgments are in the back of the book, I still will read it first. So the author admits that she herself has been a lifelong gamer. And for me, it would be hard to imagine getting this book from someone who wasn't, because it does delve into the nitty gritty of gaming and gaming culture. But as an editor that I used to work with quite a bit, she always often reminded me that specificity leads to generality. And so even though this book is going into the nuanced world of gaming, I think as obvious by some of the stuff that I already mentioned in this episode, it hits on something much more general and heartfelt to the human experience in games as an overlay for life is a really clever concept because you play a game, you die, you come back and you get to play that life again.

(08:33)

Everyone's played video games, you know how it works, right? And so this idea of the game that you design is the game that you play. And maybe that idea of dying and reliving is a good meta analogy for their relationship, Sam and Sadie's relationship that is. Or maybe it's just a statement in general. And so that's something for you to think about as you read the novel. Sure, if you're a guy, you're going to have to get in touch with your emotional side to truly enjoy this novel. But I will say it's entertaining. It's not like I'm asking you to watch a lifetime movie here. Anyway, this episode is a wrap. Thank you for tuning in. I always appreciate your listenership. If you enjoyed this episode, now is the time when I remind you to please share it with friends, family members, and other people who you think might enjoy it.

(09:28)

Because word of mouth is everything when you're trying to spread awareness. And with this podcast specifically, it's to inspire more men to read. And I need your help to do that. If you want to double down on that support, please remember to rate, like, follow, subscribe, any of it, all of it on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on, because in doing so, it helps more people find the show. And lastly, of course, if you want more information, you could visit BooksforMen.org where you can get full transcripts for these episodes. As well as sign up for the newsletter, which is a monthly roundup of every episode, complete with full book and author information, all the best quotes, and newsletter-only book recommendations. So again, if you're interested, you could sign up at BooksforMen.org.