The Sopranos Sessions | Alan Sepinwall & Matt Zoller Seitz

This episode of Books for Men features The Sopranos Sessions by Alan Sepinwall & Matt Zoller Seitz. A book that breaks down the greatest TV show of all-time—episode by episode. What? You don't agree? Oh, please. Listen for more!

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Welcome back to Books for Men, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. And on that note, I just want to first and foremost thank everyone who has tuned in and listened since episode one and really just supported the show in the initiative throughout that first month. We posted the recap episode a few days ago, and now we're moving on into month two and sticking with the trend, we will be moving off of a fiction book into non-fiction and into a different genre. So we haven't featured criticism or essays of any sort really. The two non-fiction books that we shared previously were narrative non-fiction and big idea slash philosophy. So we are going to be tackling that a little bit too. And of course, I have some thoughts on criticism in general. I will share them. But before we go any further, today's book is The Soprano Sessions by Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz.

(01:11)

So, Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz. Who are they? I think that this is a good place to start with this book before I dive a little deeper into the book and the show. So Sepinwall and Seitz were TV critics or are TV critics, but they were TV critics for the New Jersey Star-Ledger when the TV show, the iconic TV show. Now, the Sopranos was airing from 99 to 2006, I believe were the dates. They wrote a column for the New Jersey Star-Ledger, which was the hometown paper for the Sopranos since it took place in New Jersey. This book is basically an accumulation of all those essays, episode by episode with added context. And also something that makes it really novel at the end of the book is an interview with the show's creator, David Chase, to give it even more context, right? So why am I sharing this with you?

(02:10)

Well, for starters, The Sopranos is probably the greatest television show of all time, and I know that that's a big bold claim, but just as in music, there's a before and after with someone like Bob Dylan writing, you could look at people like Ernest Hemingway and say there was a before and after Ernest Hemingway. Well, as far as TV shows are concerned, there's a before and after with The Sopranos. And again, we could debate this, but I'm probably going to fall on the side of the majority here, not the minority. And so the more research that you dive into this, you'll see that there are more people that probably agree with me, and that's not always the case, but there's good reason why The Sopranos is considered the best television show of all time. Personally, I've watched the entire series five times. Now you might say, wow, that's excessive, but it's that good.

(03:07)

And honestly, I'm looking forward to watching it a sixth time all the way through. And probably when I do, it's going to be in conjunction with reading this book again. So I'm going to watch an episode and then read the essay to kind of double down on the impact of the episode or the show and maybe try to take it to the next level and go even a little bit deeper. Because I think what this book does really, really well is, articulates the symbolism and the artistry and the themes and everything that makes the Sopranos great. And that's why I think that it's a good companion to actually watching the television show, especially if you're new to the series, maybe if you've never watched it before, you could really get maximum impact by say, watching the show and reading the episode entry from this book.

(04:00)

Because it's easy to get lost in the idea that this is just a book or just a TV show about gangsters or the mob or the mafia, which it is, and it's essential to the story. But the thing that really makes this show amazing is the juxtaposition, right? And that's a word you'll hear me throw around a lot as you listen to me comment on books or do these episodes is juxtaposition. Because to me, great art is all about juxtaposition. How can you take two things that are diametrically opposed to each other and pin them against each other? And that's what makes things super, super interesting. So you have Tony Soprano, the mafia boss versus, Tony Soprano, the parent, Tony Soprano, the mafia boss versus Tony Soprano, the husband, Tony Soprano, the mafia boss versus Tony Soprano, the son who can't seem to ever get his mother's approval and also deals with panic attacks and depression.

(05:08)

So he sees a psychiatrist, and did I mention that he's a mafia boss, the biggest mafia boss in all of Jersey? And so how could somebody so seemingly normal be so seemingly insane or so seemingly normal, be so seemingly psychotic in a way? I mean murdering people and doing all this bad stuff. But there are so many things that make this show interesting and dynamic because yes, there's that great element that draws everybody to it, which is the amazing dialogue and the characterization. And we went through a huge stretch in time where mafia stories were really, really popular. So this fell right in line with that, and it has all of that good stuff that you're looking for in your standard crime television, but it has everything else that makes it truly great. And by the way, it's probably got the best actor-character match of all time in James Gandolfini and Tony Soprano.

(06:11)

The role was literally or feels literally like it was meant for him, which is interesting because if you hear anyone talk about the show, they will say how different James Gandolfini is as an individual. And you might be saying, yeah, yeah, obviously he's not a mafia boss, but people will say that he was the biggest teddy bear. And so even that is sort of an interesting juxtaposition, maybe unintentional. But either way, the character is amazing, and he's probably my favorite television character, maybe fictional character of all time. Now, with all that being said, you're probably saying to yourself, well, I know television shows that do the same thing, right? And you're right, you do. But that's where I get back to the whole before and after thing. You don't have a television show like Game of Thrones. You don't have a television show like The Wire or Breaking Bad or Mad Men or any of these great television shows or whatever your favorite television show is picket because television has exploded.

(07:12)

And that's largely due to a show like The Sopranos. None of them was the show that broke ground, and that's what The Sopranos did. They combined all this stuff together and brought what typically was reserved for cinema to the television screen and paved the way for every single show that came after it. And it's not always the case that the first is the best. It's actually rare in that way, but The Sopranos really might be the best from an execution standpoint. And also the first. Now again, this is highly subjective, this is debatable. I think that I'm in the camp of the majority, not the minority in this one. I don't know. This would be a fun conversation to have with whoever I would openly have it. It's something that I obviously think or have thought a lot about and will continue to because I'm going to keep revisiting the show and revisiting the book over and over again throughout my life.

(08:15)

And if you're like the millions of other people who love television now and TV series, I can't go a day without hearing someone give me a recommendation on a TV series that they think I should watch. Then you should undoubtedly, undoubtedly watch The Sopranos and read The Soprano Sessions, which by the way, is aptly titled The Soprano Sessions because it's a take on the core of the show as it toggles back and forth between Tony the mafia boss, Tony the family man, and Tony in the more intimate setting of his psychiatry sessions. Or as the book states, “On January 10th, 1999, a mobster walked into a psychiatrist's office and changed TV history.” Obviously, by now, you know that I agree with that statement and how they start off the book, or I believe it's even on the dust jacket of the book. It's on my shelf. I could just grab it, but I'm lazy because I am recording this.

(09:14)

Anyway, I said at the top of this episode that I would share my two cents on criticism because that is this genre, and if I'm being honest, I don't read too much of it. In fact, I always struggled a bit with it and just with the idea of it, even though I understand the necessity of criticism, especially for culture as a whole, for filtering and for entertainment purposes, and all of that stuff. But as a creator and like most creators, I would imagine I struggle with the overall idea of criticism, someone's job, who it is to solely critique your work, especially if they're not a practitioner themselves because as I mentioned in previous episodes, Skin in the Game becomes quite crucial to understanding something on a deeper level. With that being said, I've grown a much deeper appreciation for critics in the art of criticism in the last year or two, I would say, even though I will be honest in saying that I still struggle with it.

(10:17)

Conceptually, someone might say that this show and itself is a show that would fall under the criticism category. But I want to remind you that although they're critical, these episodes like this book in its adoration and admiration for the show, so is Books for Men. Every book and every author that is featured on this show is done. So from a place of, I think it's great, and I want you to read it, and I think you should read it. It's not done from a place of, I'm going to tell you why this show is bad. I have plenty of books, authors, movies, and TV shows that I dislike, and for very specific reasons, I just don't share 'em on this show, and I probably never will. Now, if we get into a conversation personally, all bets are off, right? I'm probably likely to share with you anything and everything that I think about the shows, books, authors, and movies that we're talking about, good or bad.

(11:17)

But that's just the nature of one-on-one conversation and the enjoyment really of one-on-one conversation, right? It's for me to say, that sucks. And for you to say, no, that's awesome. And then for you to say, no, that sucks. And for me to say, no, that's awesome. I love that kind of conversation. You might not. But anyway, that's all just to say Books for Men is not a criticism show. Not at least in my eyes. It's more so just to show Thatcher's books that I love because I think that you'll also enjoy them and love them as well. Ones that I think are great. And you should be reading if you are a reader, or if you want to read more because, at the end of the day, that is the point of the show inspiring more men to read and bringing together men who do.

(12:01)

And on that note, I want to wrap up this episode and remind you that this is one of those books, and The Sopranos is one of those television shows. So thank you so much for listening. I want to wish everybody a happy Labor Day, and if you're around friends and family, that is a great time to share books for men and say, Hey, I've been listening to this cool podcast about books, and I think you should listen to it too. That would mean the world to me as we continue to try to push this initiative forward in awareness around men reading more, and we need both women and men to do that. I feel a necessity to always repeat that because this is not an exclusionary podcast. I think that there are plenty of women who not only can support the initiative, and be willing to support the initiative but also would get a lot out of reading any of these books and listening to the show. So to that, I say the more the merrier. For more information, visit BooksforMen.org where you can also sign up for the newsletter, a monthly roundup of all the books and authors that you hear on the podcast.