#237 | Why ‘Last Exit to Brooklyn’ Might Be the Most Unflinching Portrait (Ever) of Lower-Class Life in Literature
Quick SUMMARY:
Douglas Vigliotti delves into Hubert Selby Jr.'s "Last Exit to Brooklyn," a transgressive novel from 1964, discussing the book's raw portrayal of 1950s lower-class Brooklyn, its controversial themes of drug use, sexual abuse, homophobia, prostitution, and domestic violence. Vigliotti also shares his big takeaways, reflecting on Brooklyn's transformation, Selby's unique prose style, and the novel's impact on various artists. The episode underscores the power of storytelling, art more broadly, and the enduring relevance of Selby's work.
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TOPICS COVERED IN the EPISODE:
Introduction to the Episode (00:09) - Douglas welcomes listeners and introduces the book "Last Exit to Brooklyn" by Hubert Selby Jr.
Overview of Hubert Selby Jr. (01:11) - Discussion about Selby's background, notable works, and his influence on literature and film.
Themes of "Last Exit to Brooklyn" (02:18) - Exploration of the book's portrayal of 1950s lower-class Brooklyn and its thematic depth.
Transgressive Fiction Elements (03:17) - Analysis of the book's graphic content and its necessity for storytelling.
Setting: Brooklyn's Transformation (05:56) - Reflection on Brooklyn's changes over 75 years and the broader concept of change.
Prose Style of Selby (07:02) - Discussion of Selby’s unconventional grammar and slang, enhancing the story's authenticity.
Artistic Impact of the Book (08:14) - The book's role in pushing artistic boundaries and inspiring future creators.
Closing Thoughts and Quote (09:21) - Douglas shares a thought-provoking quote from Selby and encourages listener engagement.
READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome back to “Books for Men”, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So. This week I have a transgressive piece of fiction for you. It is a literary work. It is called “Last Exit to Brooklyn” by Hubert Selby Jr. It is around 300 pages, came out in 1964, and I will share a lot more about the book and its author and some of my big takeaways with this work. But first, I just wanted to quickly remind you about my new book that is out “Aristotle for Novelists: 14 Timeless Principles on the Art of Story”. And if you are trying to tell a story in any shape or form, so whether that's on the page or on the screen or in your life, then I think you will get something out of that book. And if you're interested in finding out more about it. All you have to do is visit the website AristotleforNovelists.com. Okay, so now let me turn to the author, Hubert Selby Jr.
01:11 - Who is he? So he's written seven novels. As I led this off with his fiction, it tends to be quite transgressive. He was also a writing teacher at USC for over 20 years. So that's the University of Southern California. Perhaps he's most known for “Requiem for a Dream”, but it's debatable with the one that I am sharing with you today, “Last Exit for Brooklyn”. I only say that about “Requiem for a Dream”. Because of the popularity of the movie, it starred Jared Leto and Jennifer Connelly, I believe. But it was done by Darren Aronofsky, who was a pretty big filmmaker. He also is the filmmaker for two of my favorite films, actually, “The Wrestler” and “Black Swan”. Ironically, they're almost the same exact film, just on two ends of the spectrum. So one is the pits of wrestling, and the other is the highbrow nature of ballet dancing, and they're both character studies. But anyway, he was the director of “Requiem for a Dream”, and so it was quite good. I chose to share Last Exit from Brooklyn because I one, have never read “Requiem for a Dream”, and two because it was Selby's debut and perhaps most importantly, similar to “Ask the Dust”.
02:18 - Last week's episode or two weeks ago, I should say it was an influential work to a lot of writers and artists, people like David Bowie or the stylish Danish filmmaker Nicolas Winding Refn. Most people know him as NWR. And then there was how I came to this book, by one of my favorite authors. And he's also someone that I've featured on this podcast before, Richard Price. And so, again, similar to how I came to “Ask the Dust” a couple of weeks ago through Charles Bukowski, I came through this book through Richard Price, and if Richard Price says this was influential to his work, then that was all I needed to dig into it myself. Having said that, what is this book actually about? So in short, it is a portrait of six characters or six stories to give a representation of Brooklyn in the 1950s, or at least lower-class Brooklyn. But I think much of Brooklyn was the lower-class Brooklyn, which is something I will talk about in just a moment when I get into some of my larger takeaways.
03:17 - But it's similar to the book “Owning Up” by George Pelecanos that I shared on this podcast, not in what's depicted, but that book was for novellas to portray a larger theme, and this is six novellas to portray a larger theme. Thematically, this book really goes there, as you would expect for a piece of transgressive fiction, and it takes on drug use and street violence, prostitution, homophobia, trans life, closeted homosexuality, domestic violence, and probably, above all, this overriding sense of desperation. And that's something that I think cannot be understated but should be underscored as you're reading a work like this, and I think it's worth it to point out that for a piece of transgressive fiction, at least for me to be done well, it needs to be intrinsically linked to the point of the story or stories that are being told. This is something that Aristotle was quite insistent about when he said, this is basically one of the major ways that you can criticize a work if the brutality or violence or transgressive ness, I guess, in this sense, is not needed to the story itself, then it's open for criticism.
04:39 - And that's something that I sort of had taken to heart and approach most work with, even when it's not under the transgressive label. And I think that's just a good rule of thumb, but this is definitely essential to telling the story. In fact, it's what the story is in a sense. And I found it really interesting that Selby leads each story with a Bible passage. And to me, this was just such an interesting way to juxtapose the taboo nature of the stories that follow. And I should mention that this book actually was banned for its obscenity in the 60s in both the United Kingdom and Italy. And I will say that the story “Tralala” features probably one of the hardest passages of fiction I've ever read. Definitely the most graphic, a gang rape. So yes, definitely hard to read. And I had to kind of mention that because if you pick up this book, I don't want you to think that it is going to be soft, so to speak. It really is evocative and gets to the point, which is, of course, the depth of human suffering and the unfortunate circumstances of many in 1950s Brooklyn.
05:56 - All right. So that leads me into the first big takeaway that I wanted to share with you. And it is, in fact, about the setting. Brooklyn. How interesting is it that in 75 years, Brooklyn has gone from what is depicted in this novel to what it is today? And for me, this was just like a testament to an idea that I've talked about so many times on this podcast and that things change. Time passes, nothing stays the same. And if Brooklyn can change. This is so funny because I'm starting to think of “Rocky”. If I could change, you could change. We could all change. I think that's in “Rocky IV”. But anyway, I was going to say that if Brooklyn can change in 75 years, then anything can change, right? If it could be this gentrified today and basically just be an extension of downtown Manhattan, then anything can. And I don't know, I just thought that was a really interesting thing to think about as I was reading this book and seeing what Brooklyn has become today.
07:02 - The second big thing that I wanted to share with you has to do with the pros. This is something they usually key on at some point and talk about, but it's worth noting Hubert Selby probably pays as little attention to grammar as I've ever seen in a published work of fiction before. There's so much slang, it's almost kind of like a Cormac McCarthy on drugs, and I think that that actually adds to the story. And I'm pretty sure that if I was to ever ask Hubert Selby, but I don't even know if he's alive anymore, he would probably say that's what he was trying to do, and that was the field that he was trying to give with the work because he is depicting a very low class, struggling, desperate, gritty environment and writing it “true” requires slang and certain types of diction and probably misspellings and all kinds of stuff that show the edgy, rocky, imperfect world that he is Depicting, and I think it's a great lesson in style. Being essential to the story that you're telling and having a lot of confidence in that.
08:14 - And I could see where some of these other creators, whether it's David Bowie or Richard Price or Darren Aronofsky, people I all mentioned at the top of this episode were really influenced by this gritty trueness in the prose, in the work. And then the last takeaway that I wanted to share with you, and it kind of just falls right in line with what I was just saying, is this book is really a good example of art. And that's not to say that all fiction isn't art, but this book does, in my eyes, what art is really supposed to do. And that's pushed the boundaries of what's possible and inspire people to create their own versions of it. So it doesn't mean that you're going to write the next last exit to Brooklyn. In fact, I would find that to be very challenging on a lot of levels for a lot of people, but it is a work of art that you will not forget reading and will likely do something to you after you read it. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but you're going to remember it.
09:21 - And I think that really good art does that. And without question, this book falls in that category, at least for me. And I'm going to end this with a transgressive quote, so to speak, to let you stew on. I'm not going to comment on it after I read it. I think it's pretty self-explanatory, and it's worth at least a second thought. And Selby writes, “Everyone's a whore, Grace. We just sell different parts of ourselves.” All right? That's all I've got. I want to thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I want to remind you to please click the subscribe button on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on, or take two seconds and just rate it. I know if you listen to these episodes all the way through, I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but I assure you there are many more listeners to this podcast than people who rate it. So please go take two seconds and just rate the podcast. Also, if you want to tell me what you thought about this podcast, I'd love to hear from you.
10:21 - There are two ways you could do that, either by linking up with me on Instagram @DouglasVigliotti. It's the only social media that I have or contacted me through my website DouglasVigliotti.com. Again, as I mentioned at the top of this episode, I have a new book out. It's called “Aristotle for Novelists” and if you're interested in it, you could find out more information at AristotleforNovelists.com. Last but not least, if you want to find out more information about this podcast, which includes signing up for the monthly newsletter, then all you have to do is head over to the website BooksforMen.org.
