#200 | Autofiction: A Novel (Slash Memoir) on Being a Writer in a Social Media World—Parenting, Podcasting, and More

episode SUMMARY:

Douglas Vigliotti dives into the book "Be Brief and Tell Them Everything" by Brad Listi. With a focus on brevity and honesty, Listi, host of the literary podcast Otherppl, explores the uncertainty of a creative life, parenting a child with disabilities, and the challenges of writers and artists living in a modern overexposed world. Join Vigliotti as he shares three key takeaways from this thought-provoking work of autofiction and some tips to help you navigate uncertainty in your life.

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Welcome back to Books for Men, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week I have a piece of nonfiction fiction. I don't know, it kind of can go either way. The author bills it as a piece of autofiction. So I guess that's what we can roll with, and I'll talk a little bit more about this when we get into the meat of the episode. It is called “Be Brief and Tell Them Everything” by Brad Listi. It's a shorter book, 216 pages. You know how I'm a huge fan of shorter works, both in fiction and nonfiction, so I think this is a strength of the work obviously, and it ties into the title, but I'll get into that again momentarily. I should mention that it came out in 2022. Before I share three things that we can learn from this book, as well as, more about the author and the story itself. I just want to remind you of two things.

(01:09)

One, if you are a regular listener of this podcast or you enjoy this podcast, then please remember to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on because that is the best way that new listeners can find the show and we can spread the message of inspiring more men to read. And then secondarily to that word of mouth is always great. So share the podcast with a friend or a family member, especially if you're a regular listener, and this is something that you get value from in your life. Also, for more information, you could always visit BooksforMen.org where you can get full transcripts for all of these episodes. As well as sign up for the monthly newsletter, which is just one email every month that rounds up all of the episodes from that month.

(02:05)

It includes the full book and all their information, all of the best quotes from those books, episode summaries and newsletter-only book recommendations. It's great for people who are short on time or are listeners, but not every episode listeners. This is a great way to see all of the episodes in one quick email every single month and decide which ones are for you. So again, if you're interested in that, you could sign up at BooksforMen.org. Alright, so let's talk about “Be Brief and Tell Them Everything” by Brad Listi. So this author has published three books including the novel Attention Deficit Disorder, which came out in 2007. He's also the host of the Otherppl podcast, and that's spelled PPL, so other-PPL podcast. And I can't speak highly enough about this podcast. It's hands down my favorite literary podcast. It's also how I came across the book and it primarily features interviews with literary fiction authors, but there are all types of authors on there as well.

(03:21)

Just I'd say the bulk of them are literary fiction and there are also craft episodes, and it's just a really well-done podcast. It's been around for, I don't know, 9, 10, 11 years. So it's not a new podcast by any means, but enough about the podcast. What is this book about? In short, it's about a man trying to make sense of his life and art through the inevitable adversity one faces as he goes through life, especially creative life. Although the pieces change for many people, the struggle is the thing that remains, which I think makes the book relatable, but particular to this story is the backdrop of being an outsider or feeling like an outsider. Something I think most creative people experience in some shape or fashion. Also parenting a child with disabilities and the challenges of living an overexposed life, which is something I know we all deal with.

(04:28)

Social media and just the constant battering of new technology and the speed of everything. It's almost like we don't have a chance to slow down and take a breath unless, of course, we make that time for ourselves. So these are just some of the things that this book really hits on in the struggles that the author talks about. I said at the beginning that it is a piece of nonfiction fiction. He bills it as autofiction and autofiction is something that we're pretty familiar with on this podcast. I have shared books that definitely cross over into this genre. One being, “Obvious in Hindsight” by Bradley Tusk. That was an episode earlier in the year. And I think in that episode I mentioned books like “The Shards” by Brett Easton Ellis and Emily St. John Mandel's most recent book, and the title is escaping me now, which also has elements of autofiction.

(05:30)

And then of course there are classic books like “My Struggle” by Karl Ove Knausgård. As far as the autofiction genre is concerned, I would put this one close to that one in the realm of more like a piece of nonfiction than more like a piece of fiction. Whereas some of the others that I mentioned definitely have more of a fiction element than a nonfiction element. It's a spectrum really like all art. And so it's an interesting concept to play around with and think about. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed this book and there are three main things that I loved about it. And so let me share those three things with you. The first being the title, “Be Brief and Tell Them Everything.” This is really a testament to an aesthetic and a style that I really love and that is brevity is king, less is more.

(06:32)

This is something that you've heard me talk a lot about and it's also something that I try to apply with my own work. I have a little theory that I use or that I believe in, I should say. That is, one plus one equals a half. So twice of something isn't better most of the time. It reduces the power of what you're trying to say by 50%. Instead, just say the thing one time in a compelling way. I love it when I read works that also exemplify this quality for obvious reasons. With that being said, of course, there are instances and examples where I love somebody who breaks that rule, and proves my theory wrong, but nonetheless, I still love it, use it, and apply it in my own work. The second part of that title is tell them everything. And I love this aspect because it really hinges on the idea of truth and not leaving anything in the mind and being as open and honest and transparent as you can be to me as an artist or as a writer.

(07:42)

Once you realize the only thing that is good is the truth on the page, it is both a blessing and a curse because it challenges you in a way that you've never been challenged before. When you write something that isn't telling them everything, right? When you're not being truthful on the page. So it's a very hard pill to swallow because truth does transmit through the page, the honesty, the energy, the sensibilities, everything. You write about it in a different way. It's more visceral for the reader. And once you realize that this is actually the secret between good and bad, it's a challenge. This has been all to say, I just love the title, be brief and tell them everything. This is sort of what the author is trying to do in this book, and I appreciated that. The second thing that I love about this book is it really talks about the uncertainty of life.

(08:43)

And of course, through the author's lens, it's the creative life. And for a lot of creative people, uncertainty is just part of the deal. You don't create something, write something, or film something if you know exactly how it's going to turn out, you may have an idea, you may have a vision for how you want things to go, but the reality is it's probably not going to go that way. And I know that this is sort of a tough pill to swallow, but I think it's an essential ingredient of anyone's life, not just a creative life, to be able to deal with uncertainty because there really is nothing certain about life. One of the most helpful ways to think about uncertainty is that since you don't know how things are going to turn out, and radical uncertainty is pretty much the only thing that's guaranteed. It also means that nothing is as important as you think it is, which again, could be something depressing to think about, but like everything in life, it matters how you look at it.

(09:50)

And instead of looking at that with the glass half empty, I try and advocate people to try to look at that with the glass half full. Because nothing matters as much as you think it matters. That gives you the rite of passage to just do shit, do whatever you want to do, follow your interest, and try stuff because nobody cares as much as you think they care. And everyone's got short-term memories. As I already alluded to previously in this episode, we're living this hyper-exposed life where things come and go almost faster than they ever have before because there's just so much content out there and things that people are doing. And I'm not advocating you add to that noise, but I am advocating that there is a positive side to that. And the positive side is nobody cares about what you're doing, so just go do it.

(10:42)

Don't think about it as much. Embrace the uncertainty for what it is and use it. And again, I think that Listi talks about uncertainty in a very honest way. In this book, I've sort of added this mantra into my life that goes something like this: “Be or do, don't think.” This is something that I utilize almost daily at this point. And it's because everything is uncertain until you do it. And this is what “be or do, don't think” really hits on it puts the faith in action, not in thinking. So it means that when you do the thing that you're going to do, you write the book, you write the song, you film the movie, you talk to the girl, you say something to your boss, that action will give you the information that you need to take the next action. And there's no amount of thinking that's going to replace that.

(11:41)

And in the absence of not acting, you're just being still, this has been really powerful for me. It's a work in progress, but I wanted to pass it along to you because I think that it can help a lot of people. And before I digress any further, I want to move on to the third point that this book really hits on and that is pressing on in the face of adversity. This reminded me of something a guest on my previous podcast said to me many, many years ago, and that was Seth Godin after I asked him the question, what's one thing you want to tell the world? It's not what it seems. He said to me, reassurance is not what it seems. I think if you need a little reassurance, you're going to need a lot of reassurance. So why don't we just dispense with the idea that we need reassurance altogether and move forward with the truth that everything is probably not going to be okay.

(12:44)

But here's the good news. You have the strength to get through it. This has sat with me for a very, very long time since it was said to me, and I couldn't help but see the correlation between some themes that are raised in the book that I'm sharing with you today, namely pressing on in the face of adversity. So for the sake of time, I'm going to wrap this up, but I did just want to share with you one quote, perhaps my favorite from the work. And of course, if you want more quotes, you could always sign up for the newsletter at BooksforMen.org. We're, I'll feature a bunch in the newsletter at the end of the month, but that one quote is, “You never get to where you thought you would go and you never go back to where you thought you were.” And I'll let you stew on that.

(13:37)

I'm not going to go into great detail about it. But thank you so much for listening. As always, I appreciate your listenership more than you probably realize. And again, if you're a regular listener, I'd love for you to just subscribe or share this podcast. Either one of those things helps more people find the show. And of course, if you want to connect with me, you could always do so on Instagram @douglasvigliotti. It's the only social media that I have. And lastly, as a reminder, you can now listen to my 2021 poem collection titled “mini heartbreaks (or little poems about life)”. It's unorthodox, it's raw, it's a mini-memoir of sorts, and it's available to listen to in audio form on the podcast, “Slightly Crooked: Good Stories, Told Well.” The link for that will be in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for listening. If you want more information, you can always visit BooksforMen.org.