#206 | Time’s a Goon, Right?—Jennifer Egan Explores Impermanence and the Passing of Time in Her 2011 Literary Masterpiece

episode SUMMARY:

Douglas Vigliotti discusses the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel "A Visit from the Goon Squad" by Jennifer Egan. Through 13 interconnected stories (mostly) centered around New York City and rock and roll, the book explores the themes of lost innocence, change, and impermanence. Vigliotti praises Egan's ability to weave together different voices, perspectives, and timelines, creating a compelling and emotionally resonant exploration of the passing of time.

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Welcome back to “Books for Men”, a podcast to inspire more men to read and bring together men who do. So this week I have a great work of fiction to share with you. It is a piece of literary fiction. It came out in 2010 and it's around 290 or 300 pages. It is called “A Visit from the Goon Squad” by Jennifer Egan. But before I jump into the episode and tell you more about the author, the book, and some of my big takeaways, I did want to remind you that if you are a regular listener, the best way that you can support this podcast is by hitting the subscribe button on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on. In doing that, you help more listeners find the show, and in return that helps inspire more men to read. Also, this podcast does have a companion newsletter that goes out once a month and it just rounds up all of the episodes from that month complete with full book information and author information, episode summaries, all of my favorite quotes from the books, as well as newsletter only book recommendations.

(01:21)

It's great for people who still want to be in the know about what's happening on the podcast, but want to pick and choose what episodes to listen to. Something that I probably would do if I were a listener of this show. If you are interested in that, you can sign up at BooksforMen.org. Alright, so now let's move on to the episode. So as I mentioned, today's book is “A Visit from the Goon Squad” by Jennifer Egan. She is the author of six novels. This was her fourth, and it was actually a Pulitzer Prize winner in 2011. She's a writer of great force, I would say, at least in this book, it's the only novel of her six that I've read. But I was obviously happy that I did when I did because it is a great novel and I'm happy to share it with you today. So it's sort of a tough book to describe.

(02:13)

It's a really big swing, I would say, that connected with the ball. So when you connect with a big swing, you hit a home run that goes about 450 feet or so. And so I believe that's what she did with this book. The big question that a lot of people may ask when they are reading it, is the book a novel"? Or is it an essay collection? And I think the case could be made for either, but I'll get into that momentarily when I talk about some of the takeaways. But I think maybe I should just read you a quote from Jennifer Egan that I think conceptually is a good descriptor of what the book is. It might be a little vague for not knowing anything about it, but as I go on and talk more about it, I think things will start to line up.

(03:03)

So anyway, she said, “I wanted to avoid centrality. I wanted polyphony. I wanted a lateral feeling, not a forward feeling. My ground rules were every piece has to be very different from a different point of view. I actually tried to break that rule later. If you make a rule, then you also should break it!” So for one, I just love the last line of that quote, what an agency-providing yet liberating way to look at creating something. If you make a rule, then you should also break it. Damn, I love that. But more importantly, when she talks about the lateral feeling, not a forward feeling, and every piece has to be completely different. This leads me into some of my larger takeaways and it gets into the form. So this book really is 13 portraits of individuals centered around New York City, rock and Roll, celebrity power, luck, loss of innocence, inevitable change, and impermanence.

(04:14)

So many big concepts get tied into these call 'em essays, chapters, I don't know, there's not one protagonist, but there are 13 protagonists basically, which is why it feels episodic in a way. But they all link together, and as she alludes to in that quote, it does provide a very lateral feeling as opposed to a linear or forward feeling where it's like tumbling. It's not flashbacks or anything of that nature, although it does expand time. This leads me to the second thing that I wanted to share with you. Time in general, because it jumps around and because you adjacently meet these characters at different points in their life. It's why the book works so well. It shows you the changing of time and what time does to everybody. The book really dances on this high wire, I would say the entire time. But as you go on this journey over the course of, as I said, 290-300 pages, something like that, by the end, even though you're not solely invested in one character, let's say you know enough about these characters and have seen them at different points in their life to really feel something for each one.

(05:44)

And in totality, there's just this giant payoff of what some might consider a sad reality about life, but the impermanence of everything, and it just lands so well. The execution of this novel is so flawless, and I don't know, it could have gone astray at any point because it's just so loosely tied together, but at the same time, so tightly tied together. It's a paradox, I guess, all in itself, which makes it a super interesting book and really gives each character's point of view, a fair shake, so to speak. She changes her voice or even tense or point of view at times. I can remember one chapter being told entirely in the second person. So something that we also saw in “Bright Light's, Big City” by Jay McInerney, which was a book on this podcast as well as Gabrielle Zevin’s “Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow”.

(06:50)

She does that really well in her book. It's a tough thing to pull off in a compelling way. But anyway, maybe you're wondering what the title is all about: “A Visit from the Goon Squad”—it hinges on the idea that time is a goon. I'm sure you've heard the expression or maybe you haven't. She mentions it in the book, I think once early on, and then at the end she kind of ties it up with a bit of dialogue in the last essay when two people are talking with each other and it goes, “’ Times a goon, right? You're going to let that goon push you around.’ Scotty shook his head. ‘The goon won.’” I thought that this was just a really nice way to loosely mention the title again, but also hit on the point of the entire book, which is Time is undefeated and nobody escapes it and it changes everything.

(07:44)

I should mention that this whole idea of passing of time when it's shown in art and done well, it's just something that really rips me up inside probably more than anything. You see it often in documentaries when you're watching people who were once vibrant, now 70, 80 years old, talking back about their lives, and it's just this really emotional thing for me when I see it. So this book hits that so squarely. Another piece of art that does that I mentioned on this podcast when I did the George Pelecanos episode was his show that he was a part of “The Deuce” on HBO. It takes place over three decades and shows the passing of time and changing of time really, really well. And to tie a bow on this episode, the last line of the novel is just a perfect one, leaving you with such a great aftertaste of the core point of the book.

(08:47)

And in a nutshell, basically, these two characters are paying a visit to an old apartment of a woman that they once knew lived there. She's also a character throughout the work. Her name is Sasha, and the two characters that are walking up, one of them is Benny, who was her old boss, and he's now in his sixties, but you met him when he was much younger as well. And so they pay a visit to this apartment and Sasha doesn't answer the door, obviously. She's moved on with her life. This is many, many years later, and they're walking away, and the prose reads: “Alex snapped, open his eyes, and he and Benny both turned—whirled, really, peering for Sasha in the ashy dark. But it was another girl, young and new to the city, fiddling with her keys.” Man, I don't know if that lands as well on this podcast, but when you read it, as I mentioned, it really, really does hit home.

(09:48)

For the sake of time, I'm going to wrap this up. I have a lot more quotes that I pulled from this book, so they will be featured in the newsletter. So again, if you're interested in that, I would definitely head over to books for men.org and sign up. I want to thank you so much for listening, and of course, remind you that the best way to support this podcast is to hit the subscribe button on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on because it helps new listeners find the show and that inspires more men to read, or you could just recommend it to a friend. If you want to connect with me, there are two ways to do so. You can find me on Instagram @douglasvigliotti. It's the only social media that I have, or head over to my website, DouglasVigliotti.com, and contact me there. Lastly, I wanted to remind you that if you are interested in listening to my 2021 poem collection, it's titled “mini heartbreaks (or, little poems about life)”. It's sort of a mini-memoir about writing, artistry, growing up, missed opportunities, and moving forward. It’s raw, it's unorthodox, and it's available on the podcast “Slightly Crooked: Good Stories, Told Well”. The link for that will be in the show notes. So again, I want to thank you for listening and remind you that if you want more on this podcast, you could always visit BooksforMen.org.